New Limits to Religious Freedom

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fisherman
Posts: 2806
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by fisherman » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:05 pm

Well,mainly the authoritative ministry...not just what it says but what it ignores,stuff like the many warnings about drunkenness,the love of money ,taking people to court and not lying.....see,when the leaders are in communication with Divine Persons,then,well,their words are ‘authoritative’ and never fall to the ground...after all,we are the Brethren,you know..

Humbled
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:14 am

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by Humbled » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Does anyone know what ‘conversion therapy’ actually means? Are there religious and non religious organisations offering such services? If there is the possibility this may be banned by law it must be very serious stuff .

Ian McKay
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:04 am

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by Ian McKay » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:52 pm

Lots of different methods are used by people who practise what they call conversion therapy, trying to suppress homosexual feelings and/or arouse heterosexual feelings. The methods sometimes include sitting in a circle with similar people, confessing to and renouncing homosexual deeds, expressing self-disgust, praying for deliverance. Another method involves exposure of the subjects to heterosexual erotica, in an attempt to arouse heterosexual feelings, or sometimes attempts at seduction by an attractive sex-worker of the opposite sex. More brutal methods have been used, such as administering electric shocks every time someone experiences homosexual arousal. Drugs have been misused for the same purpose.

Every major health organisations in the UK – including the NHS, the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Physicians, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists has condemned conversion therapy, partly because it has caused a great deal of psychological and physical distress, partly because they see nothing wrong with homosexual orientation and partly because there is no good reason to believe that the “therapy” works. Similar views have been expressed by several professional bodies in the USA.

Many of those who advocate conversion therapy do so because of their religious views. I don’t know of any secular organisation that practises it or advocates it.

fisherman
Posts: 2806
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by fisherman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:08 pm

Excorcising ‘demons’ is nothing new, witch doctors make a very good living off of it. My fear is when untrained people or self styled ‘professionals’ start messing with people’s heads with simplistic ‘solutions’.( some of these ‘methods’ were quite brutal,involving sleep deprivation,isolation or starvation

I’ve seen some pretty messed up people who were the victims of unsuccessful ‘faith healing’of various maladies,including both physical and mental .When it didn’t work, they were accused of lack of faith,unjudged sin or ‘demon possession’Some tried to take their life.The only thing that didn’t happen was the so called ‘exorcist’ admitting it might have been their fault...

That being said,I have seen some pretty amazing cases of people under the power of addiction make some complete life changes which is nothing short of miraculous(call it conversion or whatever)Wish I had some magic formula,but I don’t...I’m skeptical about public events or healing sessions which appear to be more theatrical or for making money than genuine.All I can do is support people one on one and sometimes they die

The Questioner
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:23 am

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by The Questioner » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:12 pm

So is addiction sin, from which salvation is required, or illness, for which medical and psychological support is needed?

Ian McKay
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:04 am

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by Ian McKay » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:21 pm

An interesting question. Addiction has been convincingly and repeatedly demonstrated in rats. It closely resembles addiction in humans. Do rats need prayers, exorcisms, repentance, forgiveness and salvation? Or can they be weaned off their addiction by medical science?

fisherman
Posts: 2806
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: New Limits to Religious Freedom

Post by fisherman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 pm

It wasn’t so long ago that people with mental illness were said to be ‘demon possessed’( and unfortionately in some circles this is still thought to be true,but easily debunked as the devil isn’t controlled by medication whereas mental illness can be)

I don’t get too involved in the causes of addiction,it ranges from voluntarily experimenting ,’having fun’ then becoming trapped to people becoming addicted to pain medication in hospitals.I just try to be there for the kids..but much as I would like to think it,there’s just no ‘one size fits all’ solutions and freeing themselves is a long difficult journey with relapses part of the recovery process.Some don’t make it...

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