What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

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The Erect Vessel
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by The Erect Vessel » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:06 am

Normally it is reasonably easy to forgive somebody for doing something in the past that they are generally sorry for.
I don't have a problem with that.

When the leaders in particular are in my book perpetrating criminal acts on an ongoing daily basis - mind control, mental and spiritual abuse, - causing untold trauma and damage which remains in damage such as PTSD to this day, and ongoing... how do you forgive that?

How do you forgive the culture of alcohol abuse which has caused untold damage such as Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, +++ ?

Fill in the blanks if you can...

fisherman
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by fisherman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:45 am

When you start off with the premis that ‘you’are right and ‘they’ are wrong,then it’s easy to rationalize everything,the end jusiifys the means no matter what happens.....remember what we used to say-‘even when you’re wrong you’re right because you’re in the ‘right position’? ....What actualy happened doesn’t count when you can start off with the conclusion you want and work backwards to make the ‘facts’ fit...and who is going to be foolish enough to stand up and say’wait a minute,I was there and that isn’t how it was’when they saw what happened to people who did?

Peter W Harrison
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by Peter W Harrison » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:20 am

The following was posted on Friends Alive on 25 Nov 2010. I re-post here as it seems rather topical!

The following letter is the final note of what began as a promising dialogue with a seemingly intelligent Exclusive Brother who was interested in helping me by resolving some injustices. It is posted here so that others might understand the level of deliberate blindness that prevails within the fellowship. I have records of preceding conversations and writings which back up the allegations of this letter. My experience is that this kind of response is typical rather than exceptional and looks like a tactic prompted by the leader. The implications are quite sobering.

Dear (Name removed),

Your phone call last Friday brought to a close our contact in a way which was disappointing to me but seemed to be a relief to you. I hope it will be some value to have a brief overview of this engagement, plus some concluding comments. I credit you with sincerely believing in what you have expressed. This leaves me deeply disturbed as to the ease with which you make attractive claims, then in the next breath you pervert these claims.

You assert that truth is the issue. You then invite me to categorically repudiate my writings but you refuse to accede to my reasonable request to identify anything in these writings you deem to be untrue. You reject my invitation to sit down and discuss any matters you feel are offensive. Does it not occur to you that I could only conclude that underneath your confident attitude you are deeply afraid of the truth?

It appears you take the ground that the truth is too abstract and too fabulous to be expressed in words; truth is in part defined by declaring that what ever “opposers” say is not the truth – and, facts are irrelevant? Before God I find no basis to align myself with this attitude. It is not my place to judge but I have found no evidence of morality or conscience in your concluding attitude. You allow yourself subservience to an unscrupulous system. It becomes evident that a vital bond in your fellowship subsists in your readiness to affirm evil and to contrive misinformation. I hope that a change will enable respect and understanding to prevail before too long. Your initial attitude promised conscientious sincerity.

I feel insulted; in that I raised matters with you regarding unjust assembly judgment and that your final response was that brethren have no concern for further inquiry. You did not even offer me the respect, or indeed the justice, of further inquiry into the basis of my concerns. I was snubbed. I am only a victim and victims have no clout. This response endorses my view that you wanted the matter closed off because you are afraid of the truth, and will use your privilege and power to avoid facing it. You shun anything which might deflate your cultivated self-esteem. I know of no good reason for avoiding truth; it should be our point of contact. Out here we have no need to resort to lies, slander and avoiding the truth.

Scattered around the globe are individuals whose lives remained shattered through wanton destruction of relationships, the cause of which brethren will not face because there’s too much at stake; too many reputations would crumble; admission would endanger the Position. These lives are sacrificed to appease your god. You destroy you own integrity to spare the ill-gotten honour of your hierarchy. Your doctrine of separation has become principally a mechanism for avoiding confrontation with truth. It is easier to make and love a lie!

I would appreciate written acknowledgement from you that you have read this letter. Be free to add any comments supported by fact.

In sincerity and respect, (signed)

(no response received)

The Erect Vessel
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by The Erect Vessel » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:11 am

Since I started this thread, the truth is now getting unraveled a little more with the exposure of the head of the Catholic Church in Australia finally getting convicted of the most horrific crimes against little boys.

It just fills me with utter revulsion as the arrogant **** is still denying it ever happened - meanwhile one of his victims has passed away, and the other has had the life sentence of misery to deal with. Millions of dollars spent with lawyers to protect Cardinal Pell meanwhile his many other victims suffer in silence, along with many victims worldwide - if you haven't seen the series 'The Keepers' on Netflix you see the depth of depravity that ugly organisation has stooped to over centuries. Pell and Hell seem well matched.

What really gets me is the way that organisations and especially the head poobahs get away with - in the Catholic Church's alleged instance - murder (of Sister Catherine Cesnik). Only after the series was launched many others came forward and admitted that they had been molested by these depraved monsters.

The other more pressing thing in my book is why these organisations receive public funding???? Tax allowances and offsets with deliberate rorts - charge the brethren 3 times the price, then give a 'gift' back and claim the offset in tax!!!

Dirty criminals. Meanwhile painting the picture to the gullible and easily led brainwashed flockers that they are a lovely Christian Church!

Not much wonder the following was attributed to Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

Not much wonder they drink themselves stupid all the time to salve their bewildered twisted consciences (if they have any)

Time to wake up. The depravity of the rotten bunch is just continuing down the rotten drain wrecking lives year in and year out...and to you ordinary peeblets I say, get out as soon as you can, as you will never change a thing as the system is rotten to the core.

Peter W Harrison
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by Peter W Harrison » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:22 am

ABOUT FORGIVENESS

“.... how do you forgive that?” I think this question bothers us all. But how can one respond without indeed being revoltingly sanctimonious? I offer a few thoughts.

Something I notice about those words uttered in Jesus’ extremity on the cross, is that Jesus does not express forgiveness, he asks his father/God to forgive. This seems to me to imply that Jesus saw God as taking ownership of the whole shocking situation; not as sanctioning but as purposefully aware. Forgiveness is God’s prerogative and His disposition. We are invited to join with God and to be like minded, resulting in a change in our hearts. We forgive by accepting the reality of their and our delusion. “Mercy glories over judgement.” God prefers enlightenment over punishment. It is humbling that my efforts have not had discernible results. I have something yet to learn.

Mark 2 v5. Luke 5 v20 Jesus says “Thy sins are forgiven thee”. He is accused of blasphemy but the words suggest that Jesus did not forgive, rather that God was forgiving. (There is a difference between “I forgive” and “are forgiven”.) This called for a substantial change in their thinking, that God’s disposition was one of forgiveness rather than judgement. Fear is negated and enlightenment beckoned. This is further developed in the latter part of John’s Gospel ch 3.

My EB upbringing shaped in me a very judgemental disposition. God was seen as judgemental, the culture was judgemental and it seemed normal to have a judgement of all others. We were also expected to maintain self judgement. When the brethren judged and rejected me I put sincere effort into judging them, mostly by writing letters which I hoped would alert them to the corruption within their system. I just couldn’t believe they could remain so unmoved by our appeals.

I find no difficulty in imagining that those responsible for the greatest of crimes, the crucifixion of the Christ, would have followed an assumption that they were doing the right thing. It seems obvious that they were deliberate in their actions. Jesus pleading that “they know not what they do” looks at their actions and motivation from a higher plane.

“God so loved the world” is an arresting statement because “the world” includes the hubris which resulted in the crucifixion. God takes ownership of the whole situation and addresses it with the ‘Incarnation’. We might look at the cult as an innovative human attempt to bring some order into the Protestant brew. We are entitled to conclude that these irritating cult members “know not what they do”. If after consideration we choose “No, thanks” for their fellowship, we suffer inherent consequences. Consequential suffering is part of the Christian path and our response according to Paul “works for us an eternal weight of glory”. (2Cor 4 v17). Travail and anguish are not for nought. It is sad that they choose to reject any light other than what is filtered through own glass. They are determined to write history in favour of themselves.

The Gospel records show that forgiveness was central in Jesus teaching, mostly focussed on the benefits for the forgiver rather than for the offender. Forgiveness causes us to respond to offences positively, defusing anger and all those emotions which inflame. Critical observations then become more pungent. Forgiveness could never mean that one must refrain voicing concern. I find helpful and agree with most of the concerns expressed on this site.

The world remains full of ugly realities along with extraordinary beauties, physical, artistic and spiritual. Our sensibilities are stimulated and challenged, often by extreme situations. The mystery of God’s purpose often remains to us obscure. I like the following broad-brush picture;- “Tortuous though the trend may be, God has a plan for the world. The micro engineering of that plan is largely up to us. There is a flow from pagan barbarity to the elusive goal of peace on earth, goodwill to all. Each of us, as individuals, chooses whether to enhance or impede the flow toward the Divine goal.” (Gerald L. Schroeder, in “God, According to God” p 215).

The Erect Vessel
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Re: What level of revulsion do you feel as the years go by?

Post by The Erect Vessel » Tue May 21, 2019 12:52 am

When you read through the thread 'Must Reads' for all you PBCC people visiting wikipeebia' and in the interests of keeping that thread 'clean' from comments have taken the discussion here instead... I, for the life of me cannot understand, after reading just a little bit of it, how any normal human being could stay one more minute in that revolting cult!

Some, if not most of the stuff I knew about, but when you see the huge weight of evidence of all the awful stuff - and ongoing - the place should be shut down immediately, money liquidated and given to the victims in compensation.

Furthermore, if you are a rank and file peeblet, get the hell out of there.

By the way, it will take many years to peel away the delusion and brainwashing you have suffered from pre birth - (and I mean by that the number of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome babies...oh gee where do you start).

I get embarrassed to think it took me so many years to at least get the glimpse to begin with, that something was very wrong. Having said that at 4 years old I told my mother I didn't want to go back to the meetings, as I found them creepy. At that age mind you, you don't have much choice eh!

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