"Working at UBT and the Brethren Community"

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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: "Working at UBT and the Brethren Community"

Post by fisherman » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:11 pm

This can be traced back to JTsr who said that the leaders were 'in touch with Divine Persons and as such their words were 'authoritative' ...repeated often enough,it became accepted as truth and eventualy the 'authoritative ministry' took precidence over scripture resulting in 'systematized error '...not some minor diference in interpretation but a system rotten to the core. Paul told the saints to have nothing to do with such false teachers who had preached a diferent gospel .Scripture warns us they will 'arise from among your ownselves' ...and I submit that is exactly what happened.....

Remember,Christ reserved his greatest condemnation for such commercial systems masquerading as a church when he drove the money changers from the temple,calling them 'offspring of vipers' who had desecrated his fathers house of prayer. I suggest the same judgement applies to the UBT.In fact, I don't think you could find anything more opposite from the life and teachings of Jesus than the brethrens preoccupation with making money and their ostentatious display of wealth...

Ian McKay
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:04 am

Re: "Working at UBT and the Brethren Community"

Post by Ian McKay » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:48 am

Earlier ministers occasionally used the word “authoritative” but nowhere nearly as frequently as JT, and not usually to imply that Brethren ministry was authoritative. But it was one of JT’s favourite words and he thought it applied to his own ministry.

JND used the word 94 times
JBS used it only 1 time
FER used it 6 times
CAC used it 11 times
But JT used it 381 times

JND only once used the phrase “authoritative ministry” and that was a reference to Jesus’s own ministry. Elsewhere he denounces those today who pretend to teach authoritatively, and “the judgment of those pretending to authoritative teaching.”
You urge that the apostles taught by word of mouth before they wrote to the churches. Undoubtedly. Who ever doubted it? The question is, whether, since they wrote, what men have retailed for seventeen centuries can be relied upon — a question you do not so much as touch upon. You refer to Timothy's committing the truths Paul had taught him to faithful men: an excellent service, a thing which is done, be it well or ill, among different sects of Christians in their theological schools and colleges, and I doubt not was very well done by Timothy. But how does this make it authoritative teaching? No man's teaching is held, even by Rome, to be infallibly authoritative, save that Ultramontanes hold the popes to be infallible, which the Council of Constance, as we have seen, held them not to be.
See Romanism Part 2 page 65.

When FER used the word “authoritative,” more often than not it was to warn brethren not to presume to speak authoritatively. Citing the example of Jesus in John 5:47 he remarks
What is so striking is that He really seems to put the Scriptures as more authoritative than His own words. "If ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
See FER Vol. 5 page 79

So Mr Fisherman is right to lay at JT’s door the responsibility for having popularised the concept of authoritative ministry, and started the Brethren equivalent of the Roman Church’s doctrine of apostolic succession, which JND so strongly warned against.

As many of us can testify by experience, subsequent Brethren leaders have developed this idea much further and used it to institute an extreme, totalitarian regime.

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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: "Working at UBT and the Brethren Community"

Post by fisherman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:16 pm

By the time JTJr came to power in the 60's ,the term 'ministry' was always used as 'authoritative ministry' ....even though that so called 'ministry' was counter to the scriptures and changed on mere whims( the lord appearently turned corners) any difference between the scriptures and the 'authoritative 'ministry' ,the 'authoritative ministry' took precedence and people were named as 'evil',and withdrawn from as 'wicked perscons' for daring to insist on the authority of scripture ...that,in my opinion is full blown apostacy,common to all cults.

The tragic part about this departure from the scriptures as their foundation is that the brethren may not even be Christians now (as defined as those who have been convicted of their sins ,repented and accepted Christ their saviour-once the prerequisite for breaking bread ) ,or as some people call them the 'Pseudo Saints',but still insisting they 'are the Church' ( JND said he would not fellowship with anyone making that claim )

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