Control, Authority, Subjugation

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Ian McKay
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Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by Ian McKay » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Control, Authority, Subjugation

In my recent reading of books of BDH’s ministry, my impression was that two main themes are dominant. The first is what a wonderful man JSH was, and the next is control, authority, submission and subjugation. The first theme may be largely a means towards the second, so my overall impression is that Hales Brethrenism is more about control than anything else. It is a means by which the few can exercise control over the many.

Here is an example taken from Vol. 38 page 247 (Nottingham, 20 April 2005)
B.D.H. Yes. I think the word, control, is a critical matter. Certain things have got out of control really, got out of hand. The beauty of this chapter shows how elements, which by their very nature and character would be opposing David's authority and kingship, are subdued, and they bring gifts. Whether we are prepared to submit to the idea of rule and control. It's really basic. It should become attractive to us. Younger persons should find the idea attractive. When we are carrying on lawlessly, and without restraint, out of control, it only leads to famine, and disaster, destitution. Whereas being subdued, recognising the authority that's in the assembly, recognising the special place, you might say, that Christ has, involving the power of the Spirit, and the idea of kingship, the idea of absolute monarchy, to recognise it, what I'll find is prosperity, would you say?

K.W.B. Did Mr. Symington say about this that it wasn't a question of annihilation here, but they became contributors?

B.D.H. Yes. Showing, really, that grace is on the throne. Of course, if we resist it, and we rise up against it, then we'll have to reckon with God's judgment. See, there are difficult elements at times in our assemblies, just rising up against authority, really any idea of authority, they resist—tendency to just rise up against it, and attack it even. These elements have to be subdued and subjugated.
There are hundreds of similar examples. Later, I shall post some examples to illustrate more specifically the many facets of his followers’ private lives over which BDH exerts extreme control, a level of control that in my opinion is grossly inappropriate.

The Bible and Gospel Trust claims copyright of the above quotation.

fisherman
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by fisherman » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:35 pm

I count it more than a privilege,but a RESPONSABILITY to 'resist it'and 'rise up against it'...had we done that back in 59 we might not have been subjected to what Paul calls 'systematized error' in Ephesians 4:14

You actually think I'm going to send in my regular ' gift' to Bruce?....you ...gotta...be kidding...

Peter W Harrison
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by Peter W Harrison » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:28 am

I was first confronted with 'Control, Authority, Subjugation' back in 1960. I was in my early 20s and until then I had trusted the prevailing Brethren consensus constitution where the answer to any genuine inquiry would emerge as it was submitted to the light of the 'temple' or the 'assembly'. I felt safe with this because no one should be afraid of their question and no particular person had the last word.

I was in UK when JTJr began to minister authoritatively. I, like many other brethren, instinctively recoiled from the notion but had to accept that if I was on board I must bow to the fact that this was what it was all about. The bright boys from Aussie were making their presence felt world wide, much to the discomfort of the decent English brethren. The Aussie message was that it was all about manhood and authority and submission, and of course about purity, and that made us all shiver inwardly. 'Practice the authoritatively ministered truth and conviction will follow'. Any questioning was ' the mind if man in the things of God'. We were all totally trapped and herded before we could work out what was happening. I became one of them but was somewhat disabled by secret doubts.

It all seemed at the time to be scripturally sound, but was it?? Heavy emphasis was placed on 'lordship' whether in Mose or in King David, in Jesus Christ or the Apostle Paul or in the current Man of God. On reflection I feel that the emphasised characteristics of Lordship were actually quite worldly and were things that Jesus deliberately eschewed. Did he exercise power and authority over his subjects? Did he strive to have them dependent on himself? Did he not rather empower people by nurturing the own innate link with God, in away which the religious systems would call 'rival'?

Authority has a place up to a point but beyond that point it can be soul destroying.

brother John
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by brother John » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:31 pm

All high demand religious groups are sustained by the need to control. Also the lust for money , these have featured in the Hales E.B for many years now and serve to confirm they are in fact a cult!

brother John
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by brother John » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:31 pm

All high demand religious groups are sustained by the need to control. Also the lust for money , these have featured in the Hales E.B for many years now and serve to confirm they are in fact a cult!

brother John
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by brother John » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:34 pm

Whoops, must have pressed submit twice.

fisherman
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by fisherman » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:44 pm

I am in total agreement with PH's observations ,we are close in age .. JTJr and his henchmen imposing the 'New Ministry' was a juggernaut sweeping the country that ruthlessly crushed anyone and everything in its path...scririptures were carefully chosen that seemed to back it up....while others were ignored.( later I found this was a common practice in all cults,of which the brethren closely resemble....strong authoritarian leadership,harsh imposition of rules, 'obedience' stressed-no questions allowed,claims of divine communication - it appears to me the brethren fit virtually every criteria for being designated as a cult )

But there WERE tell tale indications something was amiss*even if it seemed to be 'right' according to the carefully chosen scriptures.The critical element f,g e missing was 'grace',as was 'meekness' (like all cults do, they twisted everything and said 'meekness' didn't really mean being 'meek) I remember my father penciling in the comment 'the word 'grace' does not appear even once' on the page of the initial book that set out the terms and condions of this new ministry.Unlike past doctrinal disputes that were open to interpretation,this regime sweeping the country was accompanied by the open abuse of hard liquor,that alone was a 'red flag'.The fact that any scripture that knocked the props out from under it was also ignored was another...the 'hand writing on the wall' ('weighed in the balances and found wanting') was there for anybody who dared to see it

The words 'moral authority'were used to justify the demand for 'Obediance' and anybody daring to do anything but instantly fall in line was basically accused of defying the chain of command,from God on down to JTJr and then the local enforcers...I do agree with the term 'moral authority' but NOT as seen in the brethren's despotic leadership ...the Lord showed his 'moral authority' when he was confronted by the religeos leaders who were bent on executing the woman 'taken in the act of adultery' (coincidently not bringing her partner,who according to the 'law' also said was to be stoned) .Christ merely said 'Let him who is without sin,cast the first stone'.THAT is 'Moral Authority'...not the brash political system that was imposed on our local meetings.....I put it to you,no Christ of the gospels ever acted the way the brethren do...

With that experiance,I have noted many examples of 'moral authority'...one that comes to mind is an old sister ,a truely godly woman,quiet and with great experiance who may with meekness set someone right with a quiet word or question...THAT is 'moral authority' NOT the loud braggidocio Australian version as seen in the Hales back in the 60's ....and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree either..

* I suggest today this would be the blatant preoccupation with money and the leader making the 'richest men in Australia list'.( how obvious can you get?) What the Lord did when he denounced the 'Commercial System' in the temple and threw out the merchants in 'my fathers house of prayer' still applies....not hard to make the connection,is it?(if you dare)

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Balaam's Ass
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by Balaam's Ass » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:28 am

B.D.H. Yes. I think the word, control, is a critical matter. Certain things have got out of control really, got out of hand. The beauty of this chapter shows how elements, which by their very nature and character would be opposing David's authority and kingship, are subdued, and they bring gifts. Whether we are prepared to submit to the idea of rule and control. It's really basic. It should become attractive to us. Younger persons should find the idea attractive. When we are carrying on lawlessly, and without restraint, out of control, it only leads to famine, and disaster, destitution. Whereas being subdued, recognising the authority that's in the assembly, recognising the special place, you might say, that Christ has, involving the power of the Spirit, and the idea of kingship, the idea of absolute monarchy, to recognise it, what I'll find is prosperity, would you say?

K.W.B. Did Mr. Symington say about this that it wasn't a question of annihilation here, but they became contributors?

B.D.H. Yes. Showing, really, that grace is on the throne. Of course, if we resist it, and we rise up against it, then we'll have to reckon with God's judgment. See, there are difficult elements at times in our assemblies, just rising up against authority, really any idea of authority, they resist—tendency to just rise up against it, and attack it even. These elements have to be subdued and subjugated.
Is this a real quote, or from your random peeb ministry generator?

I remember when the late George Mair first posted a similar extract saying "You could be forgiven for thinking this is from Spoof Reading!"

Ian McKay
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by Ian McKay » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:17 am

We could run a competition to see who can distinguish between actual and spoof ministry. If no one can tell the difference we could say the spoof ministry generator has passed the Ass test, having become as asinine as the real thing.

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Balaam's Ass
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Re: Control, Authority, Subjugation

Post by Balaam's Ass » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:06 am

*like*

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