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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:50 pm 
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Fear of Hell, and Homeopathy

Ministry of B. D. Hales Vol. 92 page 265 (Philadephia, 16 October 2009)
Quote:
E.D—n. I might be certain I'm saved, but how do we stop the doubts?
B.D.H. The doubts? Well, I've never had any doubts, so I can't really help you. I always thought I was saved. When I was younger, I had such a fear of hell. I remember I used to get sick. I think the Lord passed me through things. I used to get these terrible high fevers, and we never went to doctors. My mother used to give me homeopathic medicine, and they sure bring your fever down, and you'd finish up with about a gallon of sweat. Dreadful experience, but at least your fever came down. Very strong homeopathics, and you felt like you were losing every bit of fluid you had. But you woke up in the middle of the night in a sweat and you'd be thinking about hell. I suppose it was the preachings of my father, I don't know. He made it always life and death. And I used to think, as a young person, when I was very young, I could think of a thousand years and ten thousand years and a hundred thousand years. Then you'd say, well, I could count up to a million. Yes, count up to a million. But eternity, eternity was endless. And I remember having a total and utter fear of the possibility of going into an endless eternity in hell. I know that's pretty basic, but that, that saves you. That gets you, that gets you on the right side pretty quick.
The Bible and Gospel Trust claims copyright of the above extract.

It seems that this total and utter fear of hell was possibly induced in the young BDH by the preaching of his father, John S. Hales. BDH sees a positive value in this fear, and says, “that saves you.” Others would disagree, and describe this kind of induced fear as emotional or psychological child abuse. Besides, there are very strong indications that Hell in the New Testament is a figurative concept, so the doctrine of a literal place of eternal torment is highly suspect to begin with, even before you ask what kind of God would keep people in existence forever merely to punish them.

Have other readers been indoctrinated with a fear of Hell, or suffered such terrors during the night?

As well as the ministry being wrong about Hell, it is wrong about homeopathy too. If there were such a thing as “very strong homeopathics” they would have been demonstrated by now. The evidence for homeopathy ever having anything more than a placebo effect is extremely poor.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:45 pm 
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According to BDH, his father had a lot to say about Hell. See BDH Vol. 110 page 269 (Chicago, 14 April 2011)
Quote:
R.A.S. It's a solemn thing to think there will be persons that will spend eternity regretting refusing an opportunity.
B.D.H. Yes.
R.A.S. It will haunt them eternally.
B.D.H. Yes. See, it's a solemn matter. Our beloved brother opened up a lot about hell, I don't know why he opened it up so much. But he spoke about the silence in hell. One preaching he says, Don't think there's going to be any communications, he says, don't be deluded there's going to be any means of communication in hell, he said, it will be silence.
The Bible and Gospel Trust claims copyright of the above extract.

This strengthens the supposition that JSH was the source of BDH’s fear of hell.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Reguardless of what anybodies understanding of what 'hell' is,for BDH to suggest the loss of ones eternal salvation for 'questioning'* Our Beloved's 'Purity ' is unconscionable...

* for the record,I don't 'question' it- based on the witnessed evidence of his immorality, I outright DENY he was a 'pure man'....and NO, I'm NOT questioning my eternal salvation either,that was SECURED by my acceptance of Christs finished work on the cross....the brethren DIDN'T GIVE that to me,and they CAN'T TAKE IT AWAY ....sorry,Not Scared( but anybody adopting the those tactics might well be)...you'll have to try harder like the Big Bad Wolf of the 3 little pigs huffing and puffing and threatening to blow your house down...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:54 pm 
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I was brought up with a fear of God being the ultimate punisher. I endured this background fear as 4 year old. I sheltered under the notion that God would be lenient until I reached the 'age of responsibility'. Reaching the age of 12 I became increasingly anxious. One Sunday night after retiring to bed I became so fearful that I put my clothes back on, knocked on the door of an EB neighbour and told him I wanted to 'break bread'. It didn't take him long to realize that my real problem was that I did not have the usual peace which is the prerequisite for this request. I was still among the ‘unsaved’ . This left me in further turmoil which was temporarily solved by the logic of 'Safety, Certainty and Enjoyment'. (No, that was the name of a ‘tract’, not the brand name of a contraceptive!) Having eventually been accepted into the fellowship I continued to be haunted with the fear that because I had lingering doubts, and had tried to get in without facing the question of my sins, maybe I wasn't a true believer after all and would eventually be revealed as a Judas. I developed a bold exterior which concealed my inner turmoil. I had periods of depression and was fearful of marriage commitment because I felt like a fake. By the age of 26 the pressure was really on and I committed myself in marriage but the anxieties and the persistent doubts remained and tarnished many of the simple enjoyments of family life. I decided to honour my doubts rather than comply for safety sake. Brethren eventually found an issue which served to show that I was not really one of them. I was robbed of my family but gained priceless freedom of spirit.

What was posted about BDH never having doubts tells me much! He claims the brethren are not held by fear but how can you not have fear when you are dangled over hell then told that if you end up out of fellowship......

I agree that this kind of Hell fear is abusive but is so widely spread that it is like a virus affecting large sections of humanity – which makes it a bit difficult to control with legislation. My wife Val, (we were married 3 years ago) was brought up without these fears and consequently has a different outlook on life.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:07 am 
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I must say my earliest memories were very secure and without fear and it being explained to me that just as I had an earthly father, so I had a 'heavenly father'who loved and cared for me..some of my very earliest reflections were my mother singing children's hymns to me'Jesus tender shepherd hear me ' and 'Jesus bids us shine,like a candle in the night' and of course 'Jesus loves me ,this I know'

So fear was never part of my upbringing ,but looking out and caring for others was emphacised and practical hospitality was very much part of our lives,albeit confined to those 'with us'....but once free of the artificial restrictions of the brethren cult,we were now free to go out and put into practice the values our parents had given us..very Thankfuly my wife had a similar childhood and upbringing so our ministry to children who did not have the security and love we had was a natural transition and the older I get,the more thankful I am for the parents we had and their values they passed on

That was my family experiance ,but I most certainly did experiance fear and anxiety during the 60's when the Hales with their loud brash egotistical attitude and how they treated the brethren with arrogance and disdain that coincided with my beginning doubts about the brethren being 'right'or somehow 'special'...I concluded that most of the people were good folks but the system was rotten


Last edited by fisherman on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:09 am 
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Location: Snidey
Quote:
Very strong homeopathics


Ha ha ha Hilarious! To reinforce what Ian said above there is no such thing! Very strong? Pfft... 'I'll have the medium, middle of the road homeopathics today sir?'... What a complete idiot!

Hell, now there is a great way that you can control the masses. Scare the living daylights of them and the brain quickly resorts to switching off cognitive thinking and goes to the reptilian brain commonly called 'fight/flight mechanism' . Incorrectly by the way in my book. When we get a good fright and squirt of adrenaline going we go to freeze first, then flight, then fight.

Poor old peebs have so much fear sponsored adrenaline pumping through them they are in a constant frozen situation; deer trapped in the headlights; dangle 'em over Hell's front door and keep it all going ye hah!

Goodness knows how you can help them....meantime I'll leave Broocie swimming in his sweat.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:15 am 
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In his ministry a few years ago, BDH describes a letter in which an ex-member accuses him of running a culture of fear. He strongly denied it, but at the same times seemed to confirm it, and acknowledged that some of the Brethren don’t actually believe in his system. He thinks they stay in fellowship partly for the benefits (jobs perhaps?) and partly because they are afraid of what will happen to them if they leave. Yes, he’s right, and so is the chap who wrote to him.

B. D. Hales Vol. 128 page3 36-37 (Sydney, 13 October 2012)
Quote:
G.J.H — s. No, I'm not scared.
B.D.H. Yes, I got a letter from a guy under discipline, out of fellowship, he says, Well, you regard me as an opposer. Well, of course he's an opposer. Write me two pages full of accusations, and not one fact. It doesn't bother me. He says, You're keeping the brethren in fellowship through a system of fear. I thought, What a bunch of balderdash. My knowledge of the beloved brethren is they're staying because of the benefits; even if you don't believe in it you don't want to leave because of the benefits. The fear would be what might happen to you if you left, that's what I'd say, fearful, fearful of getting out of this circle. Well, we're not keeping you here through fear. ls that right, Phil?
In other places he unwittingly reveals other evidence that further supports the accusation.

For instance we have this in Vol 112 page 105
Quote:
I looked round the front row, and they were, I could see what they were worried about, they were dead scared I was going to pick on them. I could see by the looks on their faces they were dead scared I was going to pick on them, and say, What about you? What about you? What about you?
But fear is worse when it is deliberately induced in children.

Read this bit from Vol. 112 pages 58-59 (Rangiora, 6 June 2011)
Quote:
I think we referred to it last night, didn't we, those little boys sitting in the front row, was it? I hope they all go home and, well, this week read Luke 16. If they get a good quality scare, that's all right, that's what these earthquakes are meant to do, just scare us. That's what produces a gulf, is an earthquake. That gulf in Luke 16 can't be passed over; that's when things get fixed. It's a frightening position to get into.
The story being referred to is a about a man in torment in the flames of hell, pleading with Abraham across a great gulf that he cannot pass. So BDH approves of using that story, along with the earthquakes in Christchurch, to give children “a good quality scare”.

Elsewhere BDH often implies that God kills people in various ways to teach us a lesson. Any half-competent teacher can teach successfully without using violence, so the Brethren must have a pretty low opinion of God and his brutal teaching methods. Maybe, of course, they don’t actually believe that. Maybe it is just one of their ways of creating a culture of fear.

The Bible and Gospel Trust claims copyright over the above quotations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:04 pm 
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From what BDH says and how he acts ,I conclude he learned his lessons well.It could have been his uncle Bruce talking( I still remember how he swaggered into the meeting with his cohorts,late of course,cocky so and so) ...sheer arrogance ...personally,I am delighted to be known as an 'opposer'( I certainly wouldn't want to be a 'supporter' of 'systematized error') and I just hate to be misunderstood....nope,not scared of that lot...you live long enough,you see the end of them...especialy when they're drinkers,nobody is bigger than a bottle ...just so?

On the subject of God 'killing people' this seems to be a favourite threat,several people have told me that the brethren told them 'God would ( or had) killed their baby'( huge emotional hammer when a child is stillborn or dies of SIDS) and one man who had just lost his wife had the brethren phone up ON THE DAY OF THE FUNERAL telling him it was 'his fault his wife died' because he 'had turned his back on the assembly'( this fear serves as a very useful object lesson to keep the rest of the brethren in line) ..they lose no opportunity to twist the knife,they have no compassion ....like,we're not talking nice guys here -real 'Christian' of them...typical cult tactics,the more you learn about cults ,the more you realise fear is an integral part of it ,in fact they depend on it to control people( which they deny doing of course)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:56 pm 
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Forty years ago we were in the process of leaving the EBs. We had one child of 21 months old and my wife was expecting our second baby in late January 1976. We had done something in October 1975 to make the brethren shut us up and we had been shut up for three weeks when early one morning my wife went into premature labour. We quickly went up to the hospital where medical attention made everything settle down again but my wife was kept in for 24 hours. On returning home from the hospital I found the two priests outside my house asking to come in to visit us. I said, 'you can't come in' and told them why. They listened in silence, then one of them said, 'if that baby dies it will be your fault.' I said to them, 'if that's your standard of Christianity I feel very sorry for you.' We were withdrawn from a week later.

When I was young, if I mocked anything in the Bible or made a joke about something said in the meeting my mother would tell me the Bible story about the little boys who mocked the prophet saying, 'Go up thou bald head.' Two she bears came out of the undergrowth and tore forty two of them to pieces. Yes, that was a salutary word. Like Fisherman my mother used to sing those hymns to me, Jesus tender shepherd hear me, saying God loves us, but would then counteract that with stories about the bears so that I would get a balanced view of what God is like !

Don't be too hard on homeopathy. It has been known to work on dogs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:33 am 
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The fear that is most evident amongst members of the Exclusive Brethren is the fear of men not the fear of God . Members are afraid to say what they really think because of the possible repercussions. Fear brings insecurity and in an extreme form can make people afraid to open their mouths in case they say the wrong thing. I have had personal experience of this when speaking to a rank and file member who said she would prefer to have a "priest" present before talking to me. Fear of man will prove to be a snare (Proverbs 29:25)
Some mature members of the cult (those in their 30s and 40s) consider that they are assured of heaven not because they have trusted Christ but rather because they belong to the "assembly". This seems to be part of the indoctrination of young people.


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