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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:57 am 
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I certainly have no doubt as to the authenticity of these quotations. I would not, however, blame drink or alcoholism. The latter is, of course, an illness and is not to be confused with being intoxicated, although from time to time there appears to be evidence of intoxication. Since I wasn't there I cannot say with any certainty if the man was drunk.

One thing which is known is that power brings hubris and corruption. The more absolute the power the more absolute the corruption. With the inevitable hubris that follows the adulation of fawning sycophants comes incredible self-belief so that you think you can pretty well rule the waves and walk on water. Hales and probably all of his predecessors with the possible exception of Raven suffered from this. The consequences have been awful and are getting worse, literally leaving a trail of death and destruction.

Please let no-one be lulled into doubt about this just because you may have recently experienced a modicum of permitted society with your loved ones. I do not doubt the sincerity of their love but their masters are nasty, vicious little people who will turn on a sixpence.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:01 pm 
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JThere does seem to be a 'new look' as they pounce on anyone even expressing the loss of family,imploring them to 'come back' as 'we're diferent now'..nice,but notably absent is any apology or expression of responsability of the grief they caused or that they ripped families apart in the first place..not a word on that at all..

Fact is,even if someone 'went back' the brethren are about as predictable as a weather cock spinning in the wind....until I see genuine evidence of an unqualified admission of responsability and repentance they remain unstable in all their ways,not to be trusted...tossing out their 'universal leader' and returning to the scripturally mandated local leadership(always plural,never 'one man') autonomy would be a good start....no money in it though,and for that reason I think the CEO and the power group would fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo 'Commercial System ' intact and the cash flow coming.....nope,not buying the whitewash job...at least not until I see 'under new management ' sign on the church door( that would be the Lord,not some political figure that clawed his way to the top,or as JTJr said ' good gig,if you can get it')

While I think the ordinary brethren are decent enough people who would likely want normal relationships with their friends and relatives,they are incredibly naive and brainwashed into submission and any 'change' is a business decision to boost numbers ,not any epipheny or change of heart...Leopards don't change their spots.... What SHOULD be happening ( and is notably absent) is a general rising up in wrath by the rank and file at the temerity of these so called leaders that they caused all this -and NOW they just think they can 'move on' and invite everybody back and be one happy family? You would be forgiven for concluding this 'new look' is nothing more than a marketing decision to get 'more bums on seats' to swell the coffers..nope,not buying it...once bitten,twice shy...

Oh,and by the way,let's suppose there really WAS a 'new look' ....what about all the broken homes and ripped apart marriages that resulted in folks moving on,remarrying and rebuilding their shattered lives?...what about THEM?...are they proposing people just dump their new spouse ,abandon* their new family and 'come back' because there is a 'place for you'in the assembly?( I know on case where this was EXACTLY what the brethren proposed-dump your new wife and ' come back',they said they could 'fix it'-wasn't that nice of them?) But not to worry,if anything kicks back on them,I would expect the 'Teflon brethren' ( nothing sticks) to blame it on 'faulty local administration'- 'let not the assembly be charged' ,nice dodge ,huh?

* this has ALREADY happened....several years ago one returning EB who had been'out' for a number of years ,raised his two girls 'outside' ,now called them up to tell them the 'good news' that he and his wife were returning to the fold,saying it would be the last meal they would have together...and it was...scratch that family...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:50 am 
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It became prevalent in the 1970’s and 1980’s when if the MOG thought you should ‘get the chop’ there was little attention to witness and presenting a case; often the words “being such” were slipped in so the everyone immediately thought 1 Corinthians 5 and no further argument was needed. More often than not it had nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 5 but falling foul of the powers that be.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:39 am 
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One brother told me he had satisfied his local brethren about some sin , real or imagined and been 'forgiven'...then the next night they hastily rescinded their 'forgiveness ' and withdrew from him as a 'wicked person'...somebody had phoned the 'Universal Leader' who obviously instructed the local brethren to 'remove the wicked person from among yourselves' then they all had 'independent exercises' and 'arrived at it'

' No interference in local administration'?...anybody who actually believes nothing happens without the approval of the Man of God ' is exceedingly naive...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:05 am 
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So depending on what the PBCC deem to be a 'sin' at any particular time and whether or not they forgive you of that 'sin' ( which may change over time) it may not be wise to die over-expeditiously after all.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:51 pm 
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Many loyal EB were thrown out during Symingtons despotic reign on mere suspicion of being 'rival'....they had no idea what 'sin' they had committed.Whats more,your local brethren have no idea either...all they got was a phone call (so they could come to a 'local ' judgement) So how do you 'confess' to something you have no idea of what you are supposed to be 'guilty' of?
( Matthew 18 detailing protocol and procedure for privately remonstrating with a brother was tossed in the garbage) Of course,once the finger was pointed, 'getting back ' was not an option...

...nice guys the brethren,they follow 'assembly principles' you know,'cutting in a straight line the word of truth'......when it's convenient..(funny,something tells me the current hierarchy doesn't LIKE being reminded of these travesties that broke up familes and marriages....much easier to pass the buck and blame it on 'faulty local administration' and 'trust that's it's been made right')


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Another death wish

According to BDH, some of the Brethren in Kellyville wanted John Hales to die.

BDH Vol. 49 page 39
Quote:
Did we ever get up against J.S.H. because he knew more than us? We hated him because he knew so much. I remember thinking years ago, sitting in a meeting in Kellyville, and looking around, thinking, Well, they're just waiting for him to die. I know it's a bit rough to say that. But I was looking at my father when he was preaching, he was putting everything he had into it. Remember those preachings, Mr. Stewart? He used to preach shorter here, and then they got longer during the day. One and a half pages, to about three, and then the last ones were often five pages. And I thought, They're just waiting, waiting. Please, when will Mr. John Hales be taken? Please, you know, when will he, you know, when can we get on with what we want to get on with?

The Bible and Gospel Trust claims copyright of the above quotation.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:52 pm 
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If anybody didn't like JSH( hate is too strong a word,'have a judgement of ' would be more accurate) just read his letter to Brian Deck and you'll see why....rude,brash,egotistical people who rode roughshod over the brethren....and as for them 'knowing too much' some of the naive people who took their astute 'business advice 'went bankrupt,lost everything.....and when the Hales tried to impress some of the Midwest farmers on how much they knew about farming and how to make it more 'efficient' all they accomplished was making complete fools of themselves,driving a cab or selling used office furniture seems to be their highest level of expertise....same went for one wealthy EB businessman I knew who the Hales tried to impress how much they knew ( they didn't) ..funny,the brethren don't talk much about that ,do they?


In retrospect,what we SHOULD have done is laughed at or at the very least ignored them,you certainly don't give people like that the time of day,they're like the proverbial camel that stuck it's nose in the Arabs tent,pretty soon the camel was inside and the Arab out in the cold,just so?.......I put it to you-best view of any Hales past or present would be their backsides disappearing in the distance...( that's an 'individual exercise'by a 'concerned businessman' )

Hindsight is 20/20 but looking back,we can't say we weren't warned- the 'red flags' were there( and still are,the preoccupation with wealth being one of them ) or as the Lord said 'you greatly err ,not knowing the scriptures' ....You can't help but wonder what would have happened if we had all just 'followed Pauls ministry' and 'had nothing to do with these people' that brought us into bondage instead of being 'bewitched ' by them as the Galatians were ....you can read all about it in chapter 3...just substitute' oh senseless Brethren,who has bewitched you? ' for 'oh senseless Galatians'....Deja vue...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Better die, die!

Members of the Brethren who tell outsiders what goes on inside their church are at risk of being branded as traitors. The first two extracts below illustrate this. Genuine churches are only too glad if the contents of their meetings are relayed to outsiders. The further the good news is spread the more pleased they will be. But not the Hales Brethren.

The third extract indicates that BDH would prefer that you died than become what he calls a traitor. If you have read the earlier parts of this thread, you will know that this is not an isolated instance of such a suggestion.

BDH Vol. 2 page 163 (Nelson, 22 February 2002)
Quote:
What treachery has entered into the recovery. Is it meant to remain that way? The devil would be working now to attack the recovery, attack the continuation of the recovery by treachery. See, this idea that persons amongst us will be in contact with persons out of fellowship, and tell them within hours—it's treachery, it's absolutely rotten. If I'm partaking of the Lord's Supper and I've made a commitment to the fellowship, and then to think that I'll contact persons that are opposed, make some contact, give them information, it's treachery.

White Book 483 pages 23-24 (John Gadsden at Chippenham, 5 December 2012)
Quote:
So that the devil, the element of what was traitorous was forced out from the Christian circle. And I think we'd be freshly exercised as to that. Our brother spoke of this matter of what's traitorous, persons still passing information, passing out what's precious, and what belongs in the inner circle. It's passed out to persons who are opposed, who really have the character of Judas. We know there's only one Judas, we understand that. But there's the character of betrayal, and it's a very serious matter, you see, very serious matter. So if we know that there are persons going on and compromising with those out of fellowship, it's a question on what basis we have to continue, you see. But I just say that because it comes into this chapter, and our brother's referred to it and said it needs to be brought into the fellowship meeting, so we'll get it in early, and challenge anyone that would pass information out.

BDH Vol. 38 page 21 (Warra Street, Sydney, 3 April 2005)
Quote:
Don't let anyone in this room ever become a traitor. Better die, die rather than become a traitor. Never become a traitor, never ever, ever, ever become a traitor. Go off some place and disappear, bury yourself, be better than becoming a traitor.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:42 pm 
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Sounds like it might be about time for the brethren to simultaneously have 'individual exercises' to make 'private decisions' to send their ministry back to be 'reprinted ' for 'accuracies sake'.....


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