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 Post subject: What Makes You So Sure?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Posts: 1382
What Makes You So Sure? Dogmatism, Fundamentalism, Analytic Thinking, Perspective Taking and Moral Concern in the Religious and Nonreligious

This is the title of a psychological study recently published by Jared Parker Friedman and Anthony Ian Jack in the Journal of Religion and Health (2017) pages 1-34. See https://doi.org/10.1007/s10943-017-0433-x

This paper suggests to me that the best way to argue with dogmatic people depends on whether they are religious or not. If they are religious it is best to appeal to their sense of what is moral or just, but if they are irreligious it is best to appeal to analytical logic.

This more or less tallies with my experience of arguing with people, particularly arguing about religion. People who are dogmatic about their religion will usually not be swayed by facts or reasoning, and people who are dogmatic about their atheism will usually not be swayed by moral considerations.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Some of the most well taught and educated bible scholars *I ever met were the first to admit that while they had certain conclusions based on extensive study others might see it differently.EB are among the most woefully ignorant uneducated ' religious ' people you will ever meet....including their leaders(truely 'blind leaders of the blind')They rely on a few stock phrases and quotes of 'these great men' as the final authority and cannot enguage in any meaningful dialogue .This of course is a marked departure from what brethren once were 100 years ago. 'Humility' and 'EB' don't go in the same sentence.

* One of whom was Dennis Burrowes, Rhodes scholar ,a man of great integrity and well respected bible scholar in all circles he moved in ( other than by the EB,who got rid of him in 61) I used to go to him with various doctrinal questions after leaving the EB and he would explain the diferent views held by other groups and what they based it on but never insisted his view was the absolute correct one


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 am 
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Location: Snidey
My Karma drove over my Dogma. Would that link in any way?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:32 am 
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Yes, it happens a lot. That is why there are so many dead dogmata lying around.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:03 pm 
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The best way to argue with dogmatic people is not to argue with dogmatic people.' A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'.My issue is when peoples dogmatic views are turned into actions.Growing up in the cloistered ranks of the EB I had very little contact with anybody who held other opinions and it was only when I was free from the influence of the EB and talked to others that I was forced to examine the reasons for what I believed....my theology is a lot simpler now and pretty much confined to being a 'father to the fatherless' and I am content to relegate a lot of once deeply held theological beliefs to' I think this way but I really don't know'


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Another saying about how not to argue with dogmatic people is sometimes attributed to Jonathan Swift. “A man cannot be reasoned out of a position that he was never reasoned into.”

In other words, if a person’s views do not have a rational basis, then rational argument cannot dislodge them. If he believes something merely because he wants it to be true or because he likes it, then you need a competing desire or emotion to make him change his mind, not a rational argument.

This has particular relevance to what has recently been called a “post-truth” period, when facts are ignored, experts are derided and policies are dictated more by appeals to emotions and personal beliefs.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 pm 
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'When facts are ignored,experts are derided and polices are more dictated by emotions and personal beliefs'...nothing describes the EB response to JTJrs well attested drunkeness ,completely out of control behaviour and being found in bed with another man's wife at Aberdeen....' He was a pure man' because they wanted him to be ,their whole system and way of life fell apart if they admitted otherwise .They tossed out all the 'assembly principles ' they claimed they were guided by and instead let their judgements be ' tainted by respect of persons',one of the oldest and fundamental tenets of law.When brethren were put to the test,they failed and came up with all manner of convoluted reasoning to justify it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:32 pm
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Ian McKay wrote:
Yes, it happens a lot. That is why there are so many dead dogmata lying around.


My Karma Sutra leaves you all for dead.

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PETER F


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