Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

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abishag
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:00 am

Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by abishag » Thu May 17, 2018 8:02 am



(The Plymouth Christian Brethren Church formerly known as the Exclusive Brethren consider their own 'assembly' as 'the only true court', and while they pay lip service to the worldly justice system and courts of a land, which they are forced to abide by as citizens, they do not regard the legal minds of the 'world' as being ultimately correct or as qualified as their own church's brigade of dodgy, home grown, ill-equipped 'priests'.)


The Court case in New Zealand has highlighted glaringly the modus operandi of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church and its abhorrent behaviour for decades. When bad behaviour - morally illegal behaviour - behaviour that is in direct conflict with civilisation and its standards - when bad behaviour occurs within this church, their first action is to 'protect the church'. The victims are not really considered. In fact they are discredited while a small group of unqualified men rush about and hastily work out the next course of action. But the first objective is to hose the whole situation down so that there is minimal fallout, both publicly and within the church itself. If they have to involve the world leader, the ramifications and cloud that settles on the place where the crime took place is elevated considerably. For the church. Nobody there, wants that situation. If the victim of a rapist or child molester goes to the authorities, heaven help them. Because the PBCC won't.

The PBCC is no different to any other walk of life. It has its own inherent evils and evil people who percolate to attention when a person among them engages in behaviour that is objectionable and illegal. In this recent case - a rapist and a child molester. He is not their first and he won't be their last. Sadly New Zealand has been in the news on many occasions because of the actions of people like this. But if you look at almost any PBCC church locality around the world, you will find them or a history of similar cases. Their constrained, constricted, shielded, ignorant, compulsory, incomplete lives - sometimes play out in the vilest way. People like this exist like pressure cookers in this church, until one day they explode into courses of action that offends humanity. But not the Plymouth Christian Brethren.

The evil is that this church then doubles down. They ignore the people they should be helping, counseling and making restitution to.

Trying to explain to someone in the world, be they lawyers, judges or normal citizens, how a Brethren member's mind works when stuff like this goes down is all but impossible unless you have experienced it. They come out quoting scriptures while they work out whether they have to act and withdraw from the perpetrator or whether a few priestly visits will do the trick and extract the necessary apologies and a confession of sin.

A few years back, they welcomed a convicted rapist back into their fold while his victims were ejected, very probably at their own request. I mean, how could you sit in a church and look across at a man in the same congregation, convicted of your rape? Do the elders of this church live with the pain that these women go on to endure for the remainder of their lives? They do not, nor do they care. Being thrown out of this church, they are considered wicked people. Evil people. Evil people who were raped by a man in their midst whom they have forgiven. They will probably go to hell for leaving them.

There are a couple of glaring factors that also stoke the fires of this sort of behaviour. For a start, there is no sex education at all in the PBCC. According to them, people don't need to know anything about sex and its rules, or that some behaviours are objectionable. Secondly, women are treated as servants and are there to provide for the menfolk. Be it food, housekeeping or sex. So when a married man oversteps the bounds of decency and demands his conjugal rights whenever he feels the urge, his wife is duty bound to comply. This woman did not. And when it became intolerable and repulsive to her, she obtained a restraining order on him.

"Instead of supporting the wife after what she had been through – constant rapes at the hand of someone who was supposed to love her – the trial heard she was "shut up" by the church." So they punished her for bringing the 'assembly' into disrepute and for seeking help from the worldly legal system. How dare she take such a course of action! How dare she not protect their position.

Their own in-house brand of legal outcomes is flawed beyond belief. As someone who had direct knowledge of the way cases like this play out in the PBCC I can attest to the fact that the victims are distrusted from the outset. When something like child molestation is 'brought to light' they rush about talking to the perpetrator who of course generally denies all knowledge. Then they grill the child with the underpinning inference that they are making it all up. They infer that they are trying to discredit a man by being wicked and making stories up. They even get children to write false confessions and sign them as the Jensen case in NSW proved a few years back. The position must be protected.

And here's the really rude bit.

Never do they take the child or the sobbing wife and put their arm round them and provide the help they require. I knew a child who - after he had been molested multiple times by an evil older 'brother' - was sent to his room with the reproach that he needed to get right 'with the Lord' and admit his part in the evil that befell him. He was complicit in the evil that had been rendered him. And these people are Christians? So they did the usual witch hunt, proved that evil had taken place, proved that there had in fact been multiple children under the age of 10 molested by this man and they threw him out. So they rubbed a little more salt into the wounds of these kids and called them evil to their faces after the church services for some weeks. They could not care less that these kids would take the evil memory of this degradation and invasion to their graves like a festering cancer in their core. The man was gone. The 'position' was protected.

The evil is not that a church like this has evil people as members. The evil is that they don't do the right thing when their dirty deeds emerge.


They compound people's treatment by the way they treat them trying to sort it out. And never do they believe the person making the complaint as their first action. You are a liar until they can prove that you were raped or molested. And if you make a fuss - they 'shut you up' or throw you out all together. As they did this poor woman in New Zealand.

The evil in this case, is that their so-called 'leaders' in New Zealand and their World leader in Australia did nothing to reverse the evil, by responding appropriately to the evil and caring for the victims of the crime. They have a history of it. The victims don't matter. They were probably complicit in the evil that happened to them.

Until you get people like Bruce Hales to forget his ridiculous claims that the Brethren are the 'only true court' in the land, and to actually start looking at cases like this and being fair to those that have suffered going back some decades, you will have court cases like this with no winners. A broken woman. An abused child. Who cares? We must 'protect' the position. We must keep this from the police and the media. We must form our wagons into a circle.

I mean really! A wife saying she was raped? By her husband? For heaven's sake! They say that women are not second class citizens in their weird class system. But this court case proves that in fact -they are.

Hales knows what he does in these cases. If you are a victim of these sorts of vile crimes, he tells you to go to the police because it is nothing to do with them. They never knew- they weren't told, it wasn't their fault. It is up to the victim to find whatever mercy they can get in the world. Because, quite frankly - he doesn't care. It's not his business.

And if you say that your abusive husband rapes you and you seek help for this from the only people who can give it to you, they punish you like they did this poor soul in New Zealand. She was banned from seeing her own family as a consequence of getting a restraining order from an evil thug who raped her whenever he felt like it. And when his wife cannot be held down forcibly any more- he turns on his child and does the same thing.

There is something very wicked about that and Bruce Hales is at the head of this evil simply by the way this so-called church acts. It's not the first time and it won't be the last.

fisherman
Posts: 2831
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by fisherman » Thu May 17, 2018 12:56 pm

What the brethren don't seem to realize is the world has changed,the 'Me Too' movement is empowering victims like no other time we have seen.Purpetrators are being dragged into the light of day and their deeds exposed, Even 'big names'are not immune anymore, Bill Cosby was convicted and may well end his days in prison.The age of entitlement is over and I think the brethren may have some rude shocks ahead. The 'pure man 'defence just doesn't work the way it used to...The longer brethren try to avoid dealing with these issues,the worse it's liable to get.The once immune RC and Anglican churches have capitulated and set up independant bodies to deal with these once hidden sexual travesties,recognising that you just can't stop the tide coming in....what will it take for brethren to learn the same lesson-a class action lawsuit that wil really blow the lid off ?

twotimothytwo
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by twotimothytwo » Thu May 17, 2018 3:58 pm

I really worry about what happened to 9 year old EB Tamsyn Whiteman of Auckland, New Zealand just the day before she was due to go back to school.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=11894281

Not another word for almost a year now. In my experience with the EB, no news is nowhere near good news.

Another two years before that, EB member Jay Fowler, 19, was found dead at the foot of a very high cliff in Australia.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/bod ... hklmi.html

No news on that, either.

It seems that only when things go well do the PBCC report on anything and even that is mainly about the exploits of a completely different, charitable organisation set up around 6 years ago, in an effort to prove public benefit.

In many ways, both limited companies and charities are answerable to the general public.

abishag
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:00 am

Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by abishag » Thu May 17, 2018 9:29 pm

And while we are calling a spade a spade, let me also highlight this church's paranoia about anything that involves people's bodies or (soap and water) sex!

I have first hand knowledge of two Brethren women who were desperately unhappy, one to the point of extreme mental stress. She was in her late teens and had no idea what having a period was all about. She thought she was dying. No one had talked to her and told her about such things. She thought she was being punished by some divine power. And she was utterly distraught. It took two worldly women- realizing that there was something drastically wrong with this woman to take her quietly to one side and finally get her to talk about her problem. And they fixed it and her in a heartbeat. All she needed was some information and someone who actually cared about her. Sadly, no one in the PBCC did this.

Why they revile sex and anything to do with it so vehemently is beyond me. If you look at their photo books in which they document every member of their international congregation, one thing they are superlative at is having children. So there is a lot of it going about. But they shun all forms of sex education. They don't tell their young men what they can and cannot do and what the boundaries of decency are. When you have men who think they are little gods and women who are treated like servants, you have a lethal combination. Which is why we see this recent case in New Zealand.

Then there was the case of the young woman who almost became a fixture in one particular pharmacy who, when approached by staff would become frantic and run from the store in tears. One day two staff members put their arms around her and took her into an quiet place when she became hysterical. Her problem was she was in a very unhappy marriage - such is the Brethren method of courtship where you are selected and then married in the belief that love will follow one day. (I'm pretty sure the current leader's father said this somewhere as a directive to the Brethren.)

Her insensitive mother in law, from all accounts a 'witch' of a woman, was putting extreme pressure on her and asking her daily if she was pregnant and if not, why not. What was she holding back? Why was she holding back? Why wasn't she doing her duty as a wife? But the truth was she didn't want to get pregnant.

Her husband and her marriage were not the experience she thought they should be. It was an unpleasant loveless grind not only from her husband but her meddling mother in law. The latter was making her life hell. What she really wanted was a way of not getting pregnant to someone she knew she didn't love. So the worldly professionals put her on the pill. Her whole demeanor changed. Her life changed. She could face the mirror each morning without the pressure of wondering if she was stuck for life. What happened to this young lady longer term I have no idea. But it shines a light on their rotten one sided system of marriage and coupling their young. And their lack of education for their young people. And their treatment of women.

fisherman
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by fisherman » Fri May 18, 2018 12:30 am

I believe the brethren breeding program was initiated by JHS, a pig farmer and it appears he applied the same principles to brethren ....get good breeding sows,match them up with boars ,breed them early and breed them often.what has 'love' or ''Compatibility' got to do with breeding pigs-or people ? We want big litters ,any good farmer knows that ...

Ian McKay
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Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by Ian McKay » Fri May 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Abishag, your title mentions “no right of appeal.” This reminded me of a rather extreme saying of CAC that I came across this week in Vol. 28 page 127. He said, [referring to Matthew 16:18-19] “there is no appeal against an assembly judgment.” That puts it on a par with the Supreme Court in his estimation.

Several Brethren leaders, as you know, have put it even higher than that, making pretentious boasts about the assembly being the highest court in the land. JSH said “We have an assembly judgment here on Saturday or any other time, it's a very solemn matter, far more important than a most learned pronouncement of the High Court” [New Series Vol 19 page 315]. BDH even went so far as to say “It’s next to Deity, the assembly.” See Vol. 43 page 45 (Sydney, 2005). Neither of these leaders was referring to the assembly in an ecumenical sense. They were only referring to one sordid little sect and its sordid little power-struggles.

However, most of the past leaders have occasionally conceded that an assembly judgment can be wrong, a fact that is glaringly obvious. I have personally seen more wrong judgments than right ones, and hardly any that met minimal standards of fairness. Often the accused was not even allowed to present his own side of the story, and was sometimes not even told what he was accused of.

twotimothytwo
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by twotimothytwo » Fri May 18, 2018 1:09 pm

This from a former Focus Learning Trust (EB School) teacher:-
I soon learned that even the textbooks in the classrooms had had large amounts of material removed; for Biology there was nothing on reproduction and hormones, evolution, adaptation, infertility.
https://faithschoolersanonymous.uk/2016 ... -brethren/

Just confirms Abishag's observations.

Ian McKay
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Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by Ian McKay » Fri May 18, 2018 1:40 pm

Invasive Questioning

Abishag has commented on the Brethren’s prevailing unhealthy attitudes to matters sexual. As well as suppressing sexual education, and in some cases overlooking the crucial moral importance of consent, unhealthy attitudes have shown up in many cases of invasive questioning.

These problems are not unique to Exclusive Brethren. Australian children as young as 12 are being asked explicit questions about their sexual thoughts and whether they masturbate, as adult male religious figures in the Mormon church use one-on-one interviews to test children's sexual "purity".

The Sunday Age has spoken to more than half a dozen Mormons and former Mormons about the feelings of guilt and shame induced by being questioned as children in the church.

Jane [not her real name] was brought up as a devout Mormon in Melbourne.

"From the age of 12, you get probing questions about whether you have any unclean thoughts," she said. "You get told you should be ashamed of having any sort of sexual thoughts or being inquisitive.”

"To be honest, I lied … I wasn't going to be telling this man (a Mormon bishop), who is friends with my parents, that I had sexual thoughts."

The invasive questioning has been described as an "abuse" of children, according to leaked correspondence from the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.

See https://www.smh.com.au/national/mormons ... 4zddg.html

Well, I have always thought that kind of probing or interrogation was abusive, and there are plenty of ex-EB who have described their experiences of it. Possibly the “priests” felt justified in doing this because they thought BDH approved of it. Perhaps he does.
But I think it would be right to probe a person to bring in conviction.
BDH Vol 64 page 272 (Leicester, 16 June 2007)
Probing is right, probing your child is right.
BDH Vol 64 page 277 (Leicester, 16 June 2007)
get close to them, to try and win their confidence, to find out what’s holding them up, to be able to probe them.
BDH Vol 36 page 81 (Griffith, 9 February 2005)
that’s really the first step, committal to righteousness, committal to purity. Very attractive when you have to do with younger ones, and some of the beloved young sisters and you challenge them, you ask them, Have you kept yourself pure?
BDH Vol. 45 page 244 (Melbourne, 27 November 2005)
I was questioning . . . yesterday. . . I said, Have you read any ministry today? He says, No, he said, I’m sorry, I haven’t. Okay. Yes, I said, you better read some ministry.
BDH 87:166 (Copenhagen, 6 May 2009)
I could call on any young person here, pretty much, over the age of eight, and ask them, Do they know what’s right, and do they know what’s wrong?
BDH Vol. 42 page 132 (Sydney, 9 July 2005)
the beloved said when the young persons come home, he said, find out where they’ve been ... How many parents are prepared to just let their children come home late and not ask them...
BDH Vol. 12 page 419 (Liverpool, 1 January 2003)
you’ve got to find out, you’ve got to ask them, Where have you been? You’ve got to find out where they’ve gone.
BDH Vol 32 page 245 (Sydney, 23 October 2004)
See, we’re testing young people out. Young people are getting married, wanting to get married, and we’re testing them out, we’re doing it pointedly, and deliberately, questioning them. Remarkable what comes out of the questions.
BDH Vol. 34 page 177 (Sydney, 19 December 2004)

fisherman
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Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by fisherman » Fri May 18, 2018 2:46 pm

So the old 'probing game' is still going on...I well remember that being 'set on' in the 60's by dear old uncle Bruce...it was a marvelous opportunity to satiate the 'priests' prurient sexual appetite for every salacious detail they could extract from vulnerable people who somehow thought they had to put up with it...shoulda kicked them out the front door down into the rose bush...if you didn't have a nice big thorny rose bush, then plant one...

The theory of the assembly judgement being final and without appeal ,plus the fact that one localities assembly judgement had to be accepted by every other locality in the world gave huge power to any single assembly,they had a carte blanc to do whatever they wanted and it had to be accepted, even though other people did not agree( this often was the reason behind splits)

Possibly the most blatent example of an assembly judgement NOT being accepted was Aberdeen when they defered to the 'nearest meeting' even if they had to leapfrog over any assembly that accepted Aberdeen judging JTJrs being caught in the sack with Madeline Kerr * as evil ,until they finally got the 'assembly judgement' they wanted,then proceeded to force that on everyone else...There were other examples of 'assembly judgements ' being 'appealed ' when the 'universal leader' didn't like it and all of a sudden the inviolate 'local assembly' all had an 'individual exercise' to reverse it... Back in the 60s when we 'judged the commercial system as evil' and kicked out the Hales ,there was a lot of political maneuvering going on when 'assembly judgements were 'abrogated' ,reinstated then re abrogated again,depending on who it was...so 'assembly judgements' could be 'appealed' -depending on who it was


* the 'explanations' for this had to be the biggest travesty ever seen in the history of brethren, beginning with denial it ever even happened....the final 'true story' being it was an ambush to expose the evil and a 'one time event' ...which we now know was also probably not true,allegations are that JTjr visited her bedroom on more than one occasion both before and after Aberdeen...

abishag
Posts: 320
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Re: Brethren women and children have no right of appeal from abusers in the PBCC.

Post by abishag » Fri May 18, 2018 11:47 pm

Ah good old Ian- always there with the 'truth' and the chapter and verse - if we ever get legal on this lot Ian I want you by my side. Your encyclopedic memory for the right text and what they say themselves through their succession of deeply flawed leaders is spot on. Worse, it proves so much of what is said against this inappropriately invasive, unjust, homegrown judgement system that has wronged so many people.

Let's also not turn this into a discussion on curiosity and sex education for children. The main issue here is how this church treats women and children - and when evil is done - their complete mockery of real justice and appropriate action. They are at times, more on the side of the perpetrator than the people who have been violated.

People have been ruined for life by crimes in this sect and they sit there talking about the sanctity of the assembly and its judgements. There is no real depth of reason or fairness there, there is no proper justice and their retribution is more wrong than right.

Remember the great 'Review'? They had the gall to call that a 'period of grace'. When in reality it was the admission of wrongdoing to hundreds if not thousands of people, way too late to reverse the real effects of their errors. People had been deprived of families and all manner of normal birthrights because some man on the North Dakotan border was dispensing judgements from the seat of his John Deere. Or those of a drunken rag trader from New York or a Sydney accountant who had transgressed thrice, along with a bunch of incompetent 'position jockeys' - vindictive locals who carried out the rarefied ravings of these so called leaders, with relish. Then - decades later they came back and found us- they said 'we were wrong in our judgement. Come back'! Their 'great assembly judgements' were completely wrong. And when we didn't take up their offer (which meant giving everything up again) they had the gall to question our right to the next life - saying it would be doubtful if we would be 'saved'. Such grace indeed! That was a cruel and offensive exercise for so many people.

The evil this sect has done and continues to do to people, is wicked, and how it continues to exist in a day and age when real justice systems warn against such things is beyond belief. The first thing authorities could do is have another close look at what their kids are being taught. More importantly perhaps- look at what they are NOT being taught. Let the little girls know that they can have a life, a career and a future beyond the servitude that has weighed down their mothers for generations. Let them know what evil men do and what the signs are. And let them learn what to do about it when the signs are there. And stop protecting a hugely flawed church that gets away with murder because it thinks it has a superior justice system dispensed by completely unqualified men.

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