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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:36 am 
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I went to 'My Brethren' once! Once was one time too many!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:52 am 
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'One of the most depressing thing I have ever read'...This is so true...but at the time we were embroiled in it ,totally concerned with the 'issues' but never stopping to consider what we really SHOULD have been doing,emulating the life and teachings of Christ( that never came up,we were always 'defending the Lords rights') proving how immersed we were in the 'system' ,we had no contact with other believers,( they had all 'gone astray',while we 'held the truth' and had the 'light') it was all we ever knew...

Matthew 23:23 covers it succinctly,'concerned with the minute details of the law, but totally overlooking the greater issues,judgement, mercy and faith ' and that pretty much sums up the EB movement

I sometimes wonder if brethren had had a missionary outreach( the 'Great Commission') we might have been spared this maelstrom of politics and infighting, totally preoccupied with ourselves and ' those with us'...but not the Lord...

Thankfuly we moved on ,it was obvious nothing had changed and wasn't going to but obviously many 'Rentons' never did...my own opinion is when things are at loggerheads in a local meeting its better to leave than remain and be the cause of conflict...there's no profit in it..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:00 am 
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Gordon Rainbow once awarded me what I consider a badge of honour. I had had an exchange with him on his fairly bitter attack on all church ministers and church services. I asked him what he really knew of them. He replied that brethren at the beginning of the recovery knew about them so that was sufficient. I disagreed.

Next thing he had written to all the various ex-EB sites, including e predeccessor of this site, warning them about me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:54 pm 
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In spite of denying it ,claiming a 'Judgement' of clergymen and organized church services, the brethren had the most 'organized' church services and a recognised clergy that defied the Roman Catholic Church...at least in the RC church they had a protocol for picking the Pope, in the EB it's a bun fight for the gig...so don't let anybody tell you the 'brethren had no clergy'

What I find a strange anonomoly is the brethrens claim to be ' guided by Paul' on church governance and protocols but in actual practice ignore it ...ie.local autonomy, qualifications for oversight, plurality of leadership, recognised elders and deacons, accountability...in the brethren it's a hodgepodge of politics and one upmanship with the winner claimed on some sort of nebulous ' the Lord laid his hand on him' then disposing of all the runners up...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:55 am 
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Location: UK
Brother Rev wrote:
Someone from inside the Renton EB revealed this to us this week -

There was recently a burial of a sister from the exiled Bristol Renton EB Meeting.

This is the locality that has been ‘withdrawn from’ (in Renton EB terms ‘put under assembly discipline’) by the rest of the Renton EB’s over a matter related to the ‘Marriage question’ (the doctrine of not marrying those outside the group, nor, having those outside to attend any marriage meeting/reception). However, despite being ‘withdrawn from’, the Bristol meeting has continued to operate under Renton EB rules (so deep runs the indoctrination) and its members have attended the occasional fellowship meeting etc, in the wider Renton EB group, even though they have been ostracised by most of the Renton EB group

I happen to know the family of the sister in question and her widowed husband very well, although they have been blinded by Exclusive Brethrenism, they are Christians.

It appears that some Renton EB from a locality in the South West of the UK attended the exiled Bristol Renton EB meeting for the burial of this Christian sister. This was discovered by a Renton EB meeting close to the exiled Bristol meeting, who viewed the attendance as a ‘sin’.

Consequently those from the Renton EB who attended the burial at the exiled Bristol Renton EB meeting have themselves now been ‘withdrawn from’ under the EB doctrine of ‘not associating with those who are under assembly discipline’ !

1. Those who have rejected EBism in favour of Christianity, will realise this is typical sectarian exclusive brethren nonsense

2. If prove were needed, this again demonstrates that Renton EB follow the teaching of ‘men’ and not Christ and His Word the Bible.

3. If prove were needed, this again demonstrates that Renton EB are indeed still Exclusive Brethren. The fact that Renton EB rejected the public disgrace of James Taylor Junior in 1970 does not hide the fact they did not reject Exclusive Brethren doctrines which are deeply sectarian and fundamentally unchristian and which contradict and twist Gods Word the Bible

4. This clearly demonstrates utter hypocrisy, double standards, confusion, arbitrary application (so typical of EBism). What about all those families and relatives who maintain limited contact with those who have left the Renton EB. Should they now also be ‘withdrawn from’ , because they are associating with their families who have previously been ‘withdrawn from’ and ‘put under assembly discipline’ !.

5. As a reminder being ‘withdrawn from’ and ‘put under assembly discipline’ can happen for a variety of arbitrary reasons and not because of any ‘actual biblical sin’. For example we were ‘withdrawn from’ and ‘put under assembly discipline’ simply for going to a Christian Church to have fellowship, worship and communion at the Lords Table with other Christians saved by the work of God, as Biblically taught !

6. What a mess !. Thanks be to God for His Grace in leading us out of such a group. We Thank God each day that we are no longer part of such a 'system'


Following on from the post above and others,

The actions described in the post above are proving to be the ‘last straw’ for some. As is often the case with members of the Renton EB, they drift along, submitting to the will and sectarian teaching of men while slowly building up inner thoughts of uncertainty, concern and unhappiness. This build up of doubts nagging away at the Christian conscience eventually reaches a critical mass. The tipping point results in the persons leaving or trying to leave.

We are hearing of families and individuals across the generational spectrum and from across the UK who are ‘stopping coming out’ to Renton EB meetings and are actively searching (and finding) genuine Christian churches to attend instead.

We have heard of those in the North of England, Scotland, and the London area who are leaving.

The atmosphere inside the group is increasingly toxic, isolated, sectarian and confused. Some have described it as a slide back to the 60’s and 70’s. This is hardly surprising of course, because despite the groups self delusions, it has never left its true EB roots and never properly expunged the teaching and culture created by former EB leader James Taylor Junior.

Those leaving need our support and prayers as they go through the usual psychological and emotional pressure, blackmail, twisting of Gods Word to suit the Renton EB sectarian agenda and outright lies and fearmongering from the members of the Renton EB. Those who leave will also be subjected to the usual ‘Assembly meetings’, being told they have ‘left the truth’ and ‘left Christ’ and will lose their friendship groups which they have grown up with and even family contact will be much reduced.

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The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:37 pm 
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I attended a 'closed table' fellowship( not Rentons but another schism of brethren) a few months ago, good folks but still desperately trying to cling to the 'truth' and 'maintain the ground that we had won'..what I noticed from this visit that those 'in fellowship' and allowed to break bread once the majority were now greatly outnumbered by those 'sitting back'.This seems to be the inevitable tendency, the grip is being loosened by people no longer adhering to man made rules as the numbers dwindle down and die out .

From what I see ,Rentons are not the exception and will likely go the same way.For us ,the Renton fellowship was a transition out of the EB,we were not yet ready to venture out into the once despised and margenalized 'Christendom'.From what I have observed, is any church that doesn't have an 'outreach' ( carrying out the 'Great Commission') pretty soon doesn't have a church...despite what EB claim , the 'Day of the Missionary' DID NOT 'end with Paul'


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:43 pm 
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I am sorry to hear of these continuing tensions particularly for younger people and those with families. I have been told that there is an opinion amongst their leaders that they need to be the guarantors for the so called great ministry's as they believe that the Taylorites have strayedtoo far. Is this correct?

If this is true I fear that this would not be good news for ordinary Renton members as there would be little if any acceptance of compromise. If it reaches a Brethren flashpoint hopefully people will get out as it seems that sometimes there is only one big chance.

I have a friend who is not on this site and has family in the Rentons. They are not informed of these things and are anxious about family so it would help if you could continue to provide the occasional update particularly as you have a knowledge of how the Rentons operate.

I have the feeling that without a revered leader who would have the authority to crack the whip the Rentons would find it difficult to achieve these aims. Is an MOG awaiting the call?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:07 am 
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The Renton Group have learned from the bitter experience of the 1960s that it is dangerous to let one leader have too much power, so they do not recognise just one universal leader. That, of course, leaves open the possibility of differences or even rivalries among different leaders, which is exactly what triggered the many schisms in Brethren history.

The population of the Renton Group is now so small that any more schisms will be a threat to their continued existence.

Most other churches do not have that problem because they reckon that it is perfectly healthy and honest to have differences of opinion about some doctrinal and practical matters, but Brethren of many kinds cannot tolerate differences of opinion, because they have a tradition of grossly exaggerating the certainty with which these opinions are held. If two divergent leaders are absolutely certain that they are right, it shows that in at least one case (and possibly both) their certainty is fake, and their authority trumped-up.

That is why such leaders insist on separation from anyone who disagrees. They can then continue to enjoy their trumped-up authority, their exaggerated certainty and their assumed infallibility, free from scrutiny or criticism.

A simple solution is always to bear in mind the possibility that you might be wrong. Then we can treat differences of opinion in a grown-up manner. That is what most churches do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:08 am 
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The Renton Group have learned from the bitter experience of the 1960s that it is dangerous to let one leader have too much power, so they do not recognise just one universal leader. That, of course, leaves open the possibility of differences or even rivalries among different leaders, which is exactly what triggered the many schisms in Brethren history.

The population of the Renton Group is now so small that any more schisms will be a threat to their continued existence.

Most other churches do not have that problem because they reckon that it is perfectly healthy and honest to have differences of opinion about some doctrinal and practical matters, but Brethren of many kinds cannot tolerate differences of opinion, because they have a tradition of grossly exaggerating the certainty with which these opinions are held. If two divergent leaders are absolutely certain that they are right, it shows that in at least one case (and possibly both) their certainty is fake, and their authority trumped-up.

That is why such leaders insist on separation from anyone who disagrees. They can then continue to enjoy their trumped-up authority, their exaggerated certainty and their assumed infallibility, free from scrutiny or criticism.

A simple solution is always to bear in mind the possibility that you might be wrong. Then we can treat differences of opinion in a grown-up manner. That is what most churches do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:43 am 
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Location: UK
Quote:
I have been told that there is an opinion amongst their leaders that they need to be the guarantors for the so called great ministry's as they believe that the Taylorites have strayed too far. Is this correct?


Sadly, yes that opinion is correct.

It is understandable however, as it is true that the Hales EB, the group that followed JT Junior in 1970 (Now called PBCC), whose current leader is BD Hales, have strayed far from the principles laid down by successive EB leaders, (JND, FER, JBS, JT Senior, JT Junior, Symington etc) in the pursuit of money and wealth and a focus on all things commercial.

As Ian has already said, I don’t think the Renton EB will revert back to a ‘one leader’ mentality, however, they do have unofficial leaders, these are the ones that are regularly rolled out to ‘take’ fellowship meetings, 3 day meetings, etc.

This may well bring tensions and conflict in itself as different leaders pursue different agendas, however, the overarching aim of all, is to maintain the rule of the ‘ministry’ and maintain the line of what the ‘great men taught and have worked out for us’. This aim takes precedence over anything else, including scripture. To bring in compromise would be to admit that the so called 'Recovery of the Truth' from JND onwards, contained error and then the whole house of cards starts to fall

Its worth noting that the Renton EB are still Taylorites, because they follow to the absolute letter James Taylor Junior’s father - James Taylor Senior.

Yes, sites like this are of immense value in communicating to relatives and family members (and the wider public) who are not aware of what goes on inside groups like the Renton EB or Hales EB.

Some of our relatives are the same, pretending that all is fine and not talking about what is going on, maybe its embarrassment, or a deep seated long suppressed conscience that they know what the group practice is wrong yet they are so indoctrinated their consciences are cauterised, or maybe its because the Renton EB are taught they should not be revealing the ‘secret things of the assembly to those who are in the world’ !.This was what was said to a relative of ours when it was discovered that he had been talking to us. (as we know, all those who are not members of the group are called ‘worldly’ even if they are Christians, because this is what the doctrine of Separation teaches.

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The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated


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